27/02/2013
 
Joyce Watson: Beth y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud i gefnogi pobl â chyfrifoldebau gofalu.

[What is the Welsh Government doing to support people with caring responsibilities.] 

Gwenda Thomas (Deputy Minister for Children and Social Services): We have been working with the local health boards to finalise their carers information and consultation strategies under the Carers Strategies (Wales) Measure 2010. In April, we will publish our refreshed carers strategy for Wales, and we have also included new rights for carers in the Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Bill.

 
 
Joyce Watson: Thank you for that answer, Deputy Minister. I look forward to the refreshed carers strategy and the social services Bill, which will be a decisive step forward for carers’ rights in Wales. I do not need to tell you that one in eight people in Wales now have caring responsibilities, and that that figure is closer to a fifth among older people. So, with increased pressure on families and the Westminster Government limiting disability allowance, it is crucial that carers get the support that they need. What is the Welsh Government doing to identify and to offer support for hidden carers, namely those who provide priceless support to their loved ones, but receive little support or training?

 
Gwenda Thomas: Thank you for that supplementary question and I totally agree that early identification is key to carers getting the information, advice and support that they need to sustain them in their caring role. Many carers, especially those caring for elderly spouses, simply do not see themselves as carers until a crisis point is reached. Sometimes the professionals with whom they come into contact in their daily lives fail to recognise this or signpost them to appropriate sources of support. This is one of the issues that the Carers Strategies (Wales) Measure 2010 was designed to address and the strategies must also set out how health boards and local authorities will consult and engage with carers.
 

 
William Graham: I am mostly encouraged by what you have said, Deputy Minister. Clearly the refreshed carers strategy is increasingly important for a life beyond caring, as you identify. What would you propose in terms of monitoring the outcomes of this strategy? It is vital that you are able to publish figures for young carers, in particular, who are able to manage their transition into a working life or higher education.

 
 
Gwenda Thomas: Yes, indeed. Thank you for that. I have issued statements on these strategies quite regularly and we are now at the point of implementing them. The monitoring of the effectiveness of those strategies will be wholly important. There is, built into that process, I think, effective ongoing monitoring as time goes on.

Lindsay Whittle: Have you had any meetings with the Minister for Education and Skills to ensure that our schools are aware of their responsibilities to young carers, to ensure that those young carers are not disadvantaged in their education?
 
 

Gwenda Thomas: Thank you for that very important point. You know that there is a cross-portfolio duty to consider the rights of children in the Government. This is one issue. I am sure that you will be glad to know that, in April, we will be launching a new app for child carers to effectively communicate with them in the language and the way in which they want to be communicated with.
 

 
Mark Drakeford: Deputy Minister, help for families who are providing end-of-life care is especially important. Marie Curie launched its great daffodil appeal for this year in this building yesterday, and it recently published findings that suggest that 80% of Welsh families feel confident that they would get the help that they would need in such circumstances from family and friends—that is the highest figure in the whole of the UK. However, only 50% of them are confident that they would get the help that they need from services in the NHS and social care. Again, that was the highest figure in the UK, but what more do you think can be done to ensure that there is confidence among families and carers in the services with which they would be provided at the end of their lives?

Gwenda Thomas: I thank Mark Drakeford for that. We have made great progress under the leadership of the palliative care implementation board in improving the quality of care at the end of life. We are committed to ensuring that the views of patients and their families feed back into the system to drive service improvement. We have introduced the I Want Great Care survey, which provides quantitative and qualitative feedback for organisations, departments, wards and clinics. This survey gives real insight with data to support continuous improvement and is proven to engage frontline clinical teams. On 12 December last year, the Minister for health launched the Dying Well Matters in Wales helpline and, in April, the Minister will launch ‘Together for Health—Delivering End of Life Care’.

Mark Drakeford: Yr ymchwiliad hwn yw’r darn mwyaf helaeth o waith y mae’r pwyllgor wedi ymgymryd ag ef hyd yma yn ystod y pedwerydd Cynulliad. Wrth wneud hynny, ein man cychwyn oedd ceisio gweld y system o safbwynt y defnyddiwr. Gwnaethom ganolbwyntio ar y penderfyniad hanfodol cyntaf i fynd i ofal preswyl, gan edrych ar y dewisiadau sydd ar gael i bobl hŷn, a’r cyngor y gallant hwy a’u teuluoedd ei gael. Wedyn, bu inni ystyried gallu’r sector i gwrdd â’r gofyn; ansawdd gwasanaethau gofal preswyl a phrofiadau defnyddwyr gwasanaethau a’u teuluoedd wrth ddefnyddio’r gwasanaethau hyn.
 
[This inquiry has been the most extensive piece of work undertaken by the committee to date during the fourth Assembly. In doing so, our starting point was to try to see the system from the point of view of the user. We focused on the first crucial decision to enter residential care, looking at the choices available to older people, and the advice that they and their families can draw upon. Thereafter, we considered the capacity of the sector to meet demand; the quality of residential care services and the experiences of service users and their families in using these services.]
  

Caiff ansawdd gofal preswyl ei benderfynu, yn fwy nag unrhyw beth arall, gan y rheini sy’n darparu’r gwasanaethau hanfodol hyn. Canolbwyntiodd ein hymchwiliad ar sut beth ydyw i weithio yn y sector ac effeithiolrwydd y trefniadau rheoleiddio ac archwilio o ran datblygu gweithlu uchel ei barch sydd â chymwysterau da, a rhoi arwyddion clir am ansawdd i ddefnyddwyr a darparwyr. Fodd bynnag, nid oedd y pwyllgor yn dymuno edrych ar y sefyllfa bresennol yn unig. Roeddem am edrych ymlaen, i weld beth yw’r ffordd orau o lunio gwasanaethau gofal preswyl ar gyfer y dyfodol, gan edrych ar fodelau gofal newydd sy’n dod i’r amlwg, gan gynnwys cydbwysedd darpariaeth y sector cyhoeddus a’r sector annibynnol.
 
[The quality of residential care is determined, more than anything else, by those who provide these essential services. Our inquiry focused on what it is like to work in the sector and the effectiveness of the regulation and inspection arrangements in developing a well-regarded and well-qualified workforce, and sending out clear signals about quality to users and providers. However, the committee did not wish to look at the present situation alone. We wanted to look ahead, to see how residential care services can be best shaped for the future, looking at new emerging models of care, including the balance of public and independent sector provision.]
  

Cyn troi at fanylion yr adroddiad, hoffwn gymryd y cyfle hwn i ddiolch i fy nghyd-aelodau ar y pwyllgor am eu hymrwymiad i’r ymchwiliad hwn, ac i bawb a gyfrannodd dystiolaeth ysgrifenedig a llafar i’n harwain ar ein taith. Hoffwn ddiolch yn arbennig hefyd i’r Dirprwy Weinidog. Mae’n bleser mawr inni gyd i’w gweld hi yn ôl yn ei sedd yn y Cynulliad y prynhawn yma. Nododd yn fuan yn ystod ein gwaith yr hoffai gadw mewn cysylltiad agos â’r ymchwiliad, a gwyddom o’r dystiolaeth a ddarparodd i ni, ei bod wedi gwneud yn union hynny.
 
[Before turning to the detail of the report, I would like to take this opportunity to thank my fellow committee members for their commitment to this inquiry, and to all of those who contributed both written and oral evidence to guide us on our journey. Let me also say a particular word of thanks to the Deputy Minister. It is a great pleasure for us all to see her back in her seat in the Assembly this afternoon. She indicated early in our work that she would like to keep in close touch with the inquiry and we know, from the evidence she provided to us, that she did just that.]
  
  

Roedd casglu barn a phrofiadau’r teuluoedd hynny sydd â phrofiad uniongyrchol a diweddar o wasanaethau gofal preswyl yn brif flaenoriaeth i ni yn ystod yr ymchwiliad hwn. Bu inni sefydlu grŵp cyfeirio allanol a oedd yn cynnwys pobl a oedd ag aelodau o’r teulu naill ai’n parhau i fod mewn gofal preswyl neu wedi bod mewn gofal preswyl yn ddiweddar. Cysgododd y grŵp hwn waith y pwyllgor ac ystyriodd yr un dystiolaeth yng ngoleuni eu profiadau eu hunain. Bu inni ystyried barn y grŵp drwy gydol ein hymchwiliad, a hoffem gofnodi ein diolch cywiraf i’r aelodau a’r hwyluswyr am y gwaith sylweddol a wnaethant.
 
[Capturing the views and experiences of those families who have direct and recent experience of residential care services was a key priority for us during this inquiry. As such, we established an external reference group made up of people with family members who were either still, or had recently been, in residential care. This group shadowed the work of the committee and considered the same evidence in light of their own experiences. We drew on the views of the group throughout our inquiry, and would like to put on record our sincere thanks to the members and facilitators for the substantial work that they undertook.]
 

Turning to the detail of the Government’s response, as a committee, we were very pleased that the Minister has accepted all the recommendations we made, at least in principle. This is an area in which we know that the Government is investing a great deal of time and energy, not least via the recently introduced Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Bill. A number of our recommendations are closely linked to the Bill. Indeed, part of our reason for choosing to undertake this as our policy inquiry was our awareness that the Bill was in preparation. We now look forward to undertaking Stage 1 scrutiny of the Bill over coming weeks. 
  
  
During the course of our inquiry, the Deputy Minister announced that issues of regulation and inspection of services were to be moved to a new White Paper. The crucial role of regulation and inspection was a clear theme throughout our inquiry, not least among the members of our reference group. Reference to the White Paper is frequent in the Government’s response to our report, and we will certainly, as a committee, want to return to these matters when it is published.
 
  
Against this broad welcome of the Government’s response to our report, I would like to concentrate on a small number of recommendations where the Government has indicated acceptance in principle rather than in full, and I am sure that other members of the committee will want to draw attention to other aspects of our report.
 

We recommended that the Government works with partners to develop initiatives that give residents, their families, and their carers a greater voice and control in residential care—a theme at the heart of the social services Bill. We put forward some practical proposals as to how that might be achieved. We have compulsory school councils in our schools and we have retained community health councils in Wales, so we suggested that a residential care home, once it reaches a certain size, should be under an obligation to have a forum in which residents, family and carers can get together to make their voices heard collectively. In accepting this recommendation in principle, I look forward to hearing what the Minister has to say about ways in which practical action on the ground will provide residents and their families with real confidence that their voice is to be strengthened throughout the system.
  
 
In a second recommendation, we set out the background of the Southern Cross collapse and other enduring concerns in the sector to call on the Government to improve the financial scrutiny of independent providers and re-visit arrangements for a fit-and-proper-person test for those acquiring care homes. That recommendation was accepted in principle. The recently published Francis report underlines our concerns with a new urgency. It concluded that there is a need for those holding positions of responsibility within the health service to meet fit-and-proper-person criteria. If holders of significant responsibility within direct public services are expected to meet such a test, is it not true that we should expect those whose accountability is far weaker to meet a similar standard? 
  
Finally, looking ahead, we provided a set of recommendations aimed at securing a greater diversity of provision in the residential care sector in Wales. Our endorsement of innovative services being developed in the not-for-profit sector has been accepted in principle by the Government. Our conclusion, however, was that while the Welsh Government’s encouragement of this sector has long been evident, there is now an urgent need to move from being simply an enabler in this field to taking a more active role in shaping and delivering a model that is fit for the future. There are important commitments in the social services Bill that will make a real difference. However, we say that there is more that could, and should, be done. 
  
It is the Health and Social Care Committee’s intention routinely to revisit the inquiries we have undertaken before the end of this Assembly term. This inquiry will be no exception. The Government has accepted, in full, an important set of our recommendations, which we will all want to see being delivered on the ground. By the end of the fourth Assembly, we will want to see, for example, that no older person routinely enters residential care directly from a hospital bed. We will want to know that all older people are offered an assessment of need, whether they are funded by the state or are paying for care themselves. We will also be checking that a simple but effective information service has been established in Wales.
  
The way in which a society looks after its older people is a measure of its civility. One day, we will all reach old age, we hope, and may need the help of others to live a meaningful and fulfilling life. For those who end their days in residential care, we, as a committee, hope that our report will contribute to that measure of civility in Wales. I look forward to hearing the contributions of others to this important debate.

Darren Millar got our debate off to an excellent start when he reminded us that the number of people going into residential care in Wales, despite the fact that the number of older people is rising—as a number and as a proportion of the population—has fallen year on year for the last 10 years, and is due to continue falling for the next five years at least. That is a trend that we as a committee endorse. Kirsty Williams referred to the importance of reablement; the evidence that we took about the contribution that reablement can make to pressing that agenda further was powerful.

Janet Finch-Saunders referred to the importance of common disabling conditions. We took really important evidence about the small things that the health service can do to help people to stay in their own homes, healthier and for longer. That is a really important thrust of our report. However, as Lindsay Whittle said, there will always be a need for residential care, and it is vital that we do not fall into the trap of believing that residential care will always be a last resort, where people are driven to it because there is nothing else for them. On every single visit that we as a committee made to residential care homes in Wales, we met people who said to us, ‘I’m here because I want to be here, and because I have chosen to be here. That means that this place needs to be as good as it possibly can be for me.’ As we have heard, that means that it should attend to people’s spiritual, physical, cultural and social needs.
 
Fel y dywedodd Alun Ffred, mae’n bwysig hefyd meddwl am anghenion ieithyddol. Nid oes argymhelliad ar iaith yn ein hadroddiad, ond mae’r adroddiad yn cynnwys nifer o gasgliadau. Mae casgliad 8 yn nodi’n glir bod angen sicrhau bod recriwtio a hyfforddi staff yn helpu sicrhau bod cyfathrebu da rhwng staff gofal a’r bobl sy’n byw mewn cartrefi gofal yn cael ei hwyluso. Bu i ni godi’r cwestiwn hwnnw gyda nifer fawr o dystion a ddaeth i’r pwyllgor: gofynnais i, a gofynodd Elin Jones ac aelodau eraill y pwyllgor, y cwestiwn hwnnw. Pan oeddem yn Sir Gâr, clywsom fod yr awdurdod lleol wedi cadw nifer o gartrefi preswyl yn ei ddwylo ei hunan oherwydd ei bod yn haws iddo felly sicrhau bod gwasanaethau ar gael yn yr iaith Gymraeg, ac mae hynny’n hynod o bwysig i’r bobl sy’n byw yn y cartrefi hynny.

[As Alun Ffred said, it is also important to consider linguistic needs. There is no recommendation on language in our report, but the report includes a number of conclusions. Conclusion 8 states clearly that we need to ensure that the recruitment and training of staff helps to ensure that good communication between care staff and care home residents is facilitated. We raised that question with many witnesses who appeared before the committee: I, Elin Jones, and other members of the committee, asked that question. When we were in Carmarthenshire, we heard that the local authority has kept a number of residential homes in its ownership because that makes it is easier for it to ensure that services are available in Welsh, which is very important to those living in those homes.]
  

Therefore, we absolutely recognise that. To take up a point that Janet raised, that is particularly important in the case of dementia, when people will be struggling with communication in any case, and where acquired language may become particularly problematic and people will wish to return to the language in which they are most comfortable in communicating. Therefore, it was very encouraging to hear what the Deputy Minister for Children and Social Services had to say about the steps that the Welsh Government intends to take in response to the report, both through the Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Bill, the White Paper, and other actions that are in the hands of the Government.
  

When I look back at our inquiry, if I think of the one thing that remains with me most clearly, it is the message that we heard from so many people that the decision that you make for someone to go into residential care is a lonely, difficult and often guilt-ridden one. When we make other life-changing decisions, such as those related to sending our children to school, choosing jobs and going into hospital, we are generally able to draw on our own experience or the experience of our neighbours, friends or other family members. However, making the decision about residential care is a once-in-a-lifetime decision. Knowing where to go for help, knowing how you can get reliable guidance and finding ways to make the right decision for you or for family members are things that, time and again, members of the reference group and witnesses who came before us emphasised as things that we need to improve in Wales.
  

This is an agenda that cuts right across politics, the committee and the Chamber. I am sure that we are all united in wanting to do the very best for older people who live in Wales. The White Paper and the Bill will be important opportunities to make sure that we get that right. We look forward to working with the Deputy Minister on this agenda to ensure that we secure in practice those improvements that we are all signed up to in principle.

05/02/2013

Mark Drakeford: Pa asesiad y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi’i wneud o’r camau a gymerir gan awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru i liniaru ar effaith toriadau mewn budd-daliadau tai hanfodol.

 
[What assessment has the Welsh Government made of the actions being taken by local authorities in Wales to mitigate the impact of cuts in essential housing benefits.]

 
 
Carwyn Jones: We have contacted all local authorities to ascertain what has been undertaken to assess the impacts of welfare reform. Of the 16 that have responded so far, five have undertaken bespoke impact assessments. Clearly, there needs to be a more proactive response from other local authorities in Wales in order to ensure that the most vulnerable people that they have are placed in the best position possible.

 
Mark Drakeford: The iniquities of the coalition’s policy in relation to housing benefit cuts have been well rehearsed in this Chamber. Will you join me in commending the efforts of Cardiff and other Labour councillors elsewhere in Wales to deploy every flexibility that they are able to assemble so that, for example, foster parents are not forced to give up their vital work for the lack of a bedroom, grandparents are not forced to give up the care of grandchildren that means that parents are able to go to work, and families that are working hard with their local authority or housing association to find affordable accommodation are not forced into smaller and more expensive private sector accommodation because of the dogmatic actions of an inflexible and ideologically-driven administration in London?

 
Carwyn Jones:The Member makes his points very strongly, and I can only reiterate what he has said. I was struck last week by the delegation that the Prime Minister received from his constituency chairs on the issue of gay marriage. I was struck by the fact that they said that they could not reconcile themselves to gay marriage because of their moral values. Where are their moral values when it comes to taking money away from the most vulnerable? I do not want to hear about moral values from Conservatives; they have got their moral values wrong, and I find it absolutely sickening that there are families that will suffer, grandparents who will suffer, foster carers who will suffer, and young people who will suffer as a result of their warped moral values. We need no lectures from them on that point.

Dydd Mercher, 23 Ionawr 2013/ Wednesday, 16 January 2013    

Mark Drakeford: Diolch am y cyfle i wneud cyfraniad byr i’r ddadl hon. Mae pwysigrwydd y diwydiannau creadigol i Gymru yn amlwg iawn, a chytunaf â llawer o’r hyn sydd wedi’i ddweud eisoes y prynhawn yma, yn enwedig yr hyn a ddywedodd Alun Ffred Jones wrth agor y ddadl. Hoffwn ganolbwyntio ar y maes anodd presennol sydd wedi’i nodi yn y cynnig o ran datblygu system breindaliadau hawliau perfformio i Gymru. Yn yr un modd ag Aelodau eraill, rwyf wedi bod mewn sawl cyfarfod yn y Senedd lle mae’r BBC ac Eos wedi cael y cyfle i esbonio’r anghydfod presennol rhyngddynt o’u safbwyntiau gwahanol eu hunain. I rywun fel fi, sydd y tu allan i’r diwydiant yn gwrando ar y safbwyntiau hyn, mae’n dod yn amlwg yn fuan bod hanes cymhleth y tu ôl i’r sefyllfa heddiw. Mae anawsterau heddiw yn deillio o’r penderfyniad a wnaed gan y Gymdeithas Hawliau Perfformio yn 2006. Wrth edrych yn ôl, mae’n ymddangos nad oedd y rhai a wnaeth y penderfyniadau hynny, ar y gorau, yn ymwybodol o oblygiadau’r penderfyniad neu, ar y gwaethaf, yn gwbl ddi-hid ohonynt.
 

[Thank you for the opportunity to make a brief contribution to this debate. The importance of the creative industries to Wales is clear. I agree with a great deal of what has already been said this afternoon, particularly with what Alun Ffred Jones said when he opened the debate. I wish to concentrate on the area of current contention that is identified in the motion when it points to the development of a Welsh performing rights royalties system. In common with other Members, I have attended several meetings in the Senedd where the BBC and Eos have had the opportunity to explain the current dispute between them from their different perspectives. To someone like me, outside of the industry, listening to these accounts, it quickly becomes clear that a complex history lies behind today’s situation. Today’s difficulties come from the decision that the Performing Rights Society made in 2006. Looking back, it appears that those who made those decisions, at best, were unaware of its consequences or, at worst, were entirely careless of them.]
 
Nid oedd y BBC yn rhan o’r penderfyniadau hyn o gwbl, ond erbyn hyn mae’r gorfforaeth yn rhan annatod o oblygiadau’r penderfyniad yn ei drafodaethau ag Eos dros hawliau darlledu. Byddai portreadu’r BBC fel y drwg yn y caws yn yr anghydfod hwn yn gorsymleiddio pethau, ac er tegwch nid dyma’r ddadl a gyflwynwyd gan Eos yn ystod ei gyflwyniad yma yr wythnos diwethaf. Serch hynny, mae rheidrwydd ar y BBC, oherwydd ei statws fel darlledwr gwasanaeth cyhoeddus, i weithredu’n gyflym ac ar frys er mwyn dod â’r anghydfod i ben. Wrth gwrs, mae’r broblem yn ymwneud ag arian, ond mae’r goblygiadau yn rhai cymdeithasol a diwylliannol, yn ogystal ag economaidd. Gall absenoldeb cymaint o gerddoriaeth Gymraeg o Radio Cymru ond fod yn niweidiol i’r celfyddydau a’r cyfraniad y maent yn ei wneud i fywyd yng Nghymru, sef craidd y cynnig yr ydym yn ei drafod heddiw.

 
[The BBC was not a part of these decisions at all, but the corporation is now inextricably caught up in the implications of the decision made during its discussions with Eos over broadcasting rights. To portray the BBC as the villain in this piece would be an oversimplification of the situation. In fairness, this was not the argument that was put forward by Eos in its presentation here last week. Nevertheless, there is an obligation on the BBC, because of its status as a public service broadcaster, to act swiftly and urgently to bring the dispute to a close. Of course, the problem relates to money, but its implications are just as much social and cultural as they are economic. The absence of so much contemporary Welsh-language music from Radio Cymru can only be damaging to the vitality of the arts and the contribution that they make to life in Wales, which is at the heart of the motion that we are debating today.]
 
  

Rwy’n deall, wrth gwrs, nad yw’r Llywodraeth hon yn rhan uniongyrchol o’r anghydfod, ond gall Gweinidogion ddod ag awdurdod moesol a gwleidyddol i faterion polisi cyhoeddus yng Nghymru, sy’n golygu bod ganddynt ddylanwad gwirioneddol, hyd yn oed os nad yw’r pwerau uniongyrchol yn eu dwylo hwy.
 

[I understand, of course, that the Welsh Government is not directly a party to the dispute, but there is a moral and political authority that Ministers can bring to important public policy issues in Wales, which means that they have real influence, even when the levers of power are not in their own hands.]
 
  
Edrychaf ymlaen at glywed yr hyn a fydd gan y Gweinidog i’w ddweud yn ystod y ddadl heddiw, a gobeithiaf yn fawr y bydd hyn yn rhoi syniad inni o’r hyn y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud i ddatrys yr anghydfod niweidiol hwn.
 

[I look forward to hearing what the Minister has to say during today’s debate and I very much hope that this will give us a sense of what the Welsh Government is doing to help resolve this damaging dispute.]

Dydd Mercher, 23 Ionawr 2013/ Wednesday, 16 January 2013  

Mark Drakeford: Pa gamau gweithredu y mae’r Gweinidog yn eu cymryd i ymwreiddio egwyddorion cyd-gynhyrchu wrth lunio a darparu gwasanaethau cymdeithasol yng Nghymru.

[What action is the Minister taking to embed the principles of co-production in the design and delivery of social services in Wales.]
 

Gwenda Thomas:‘Sustainable Social Services for Wales: A Framework for Action’ gives our commitment to our broader aims of social services built around citizens. The draft social services and wellbeing (Wales) Bill includes duties to promote development of co-productive delivery models, such as social enterprises.
 

Mark Drakeford: Diolch, Weinidog. We look forward to the publication of the Bill, hopefully next week. In thinking about what it might say about co-production, are there lessons that you believe that we might learn in Wales from developments in other parts of the United Kingdom, such as Scotland, where thinking about co-production and practical policies based on those principles have already been put into practice?

 
Gwenda Thomas: Thank you for that supplementary question. I am pleased by the learning and expertise being shared by the joint Scotland and Wales co-production network on how co-production is being developed, embedded and taken forward in our respective countries. During the visit, the Wales delegation looked at social services in Midlothian where co-production is embedded in the way that the local authority works, and learned about Talking Points—a personal outcomes approach that combines user and carer involvement with an outcomes approach to planning, delivering, evaluating and improving services. Talking Points takes a similar approach to that taken in the ‘Together for Mental Health’ strategy, in which measurable outcomes are being developed from a service user perspective through a co-production process involving mental health third sector organisations.

 
The network demonstrates a two-way learning process. Scottish counterparts were interested in initiatives that we have in Wales, including Book Prescription Wales bibliotherapy scheme, the Educating Patients Programme, and the whole role of service users in co-producing care and treatment plans under the Mental Health (Wales) Measure 2010. Inspired by these programmes, counterparts in Scotland are looking to take these forward in their country.
 

Mark Isherwood: It is now almost three years since the Wales Council for Voluntary Action-led coalition attended all party conferences in Wales hosting round-table discussions, focusing on community resource teams, a whole-service approach to primary care, and delivering co-production that puts people in communities rather than service deliverers at the centre. However, Empower has said this month that, despite the voluntary sector support scheme and the development of local service boards, real meaningful joint working largely still evades us. What consideration have you therefore given or could give to the role that voluntary sector brokers can play as members of community resource teams in brokering services for the delivery of care from third sector providers?
 

Gwenda Thomas: Thank you, Mark Isherwood, for that. The Bill will show that we can look at any option to develop alternative service models. I believe that the most effective way of achieving positive outcomes is by co-producing services. The central idea in co-production is that people who use services are hidden resources. The question that you ask fits into that. I am sure that we are all looking forward to see what the Bill states on developing these alternative services.

[The Assembly considers the commissioner’s annual report today, and the Health and Social Care Committee was also able to hold our annual scrutiny meeting with her earlier in the autumn. Over the past year, a number of links have emerged between our work as a committee and that of the commissioner’s office. It is no great surprise that health and social care issues continue to be high on the list of issues raised with the commissioner by older people in Wales. That was the case during the period in which Ruth Marks undertook the commissioner’s duties, and this continues to be the single most significant strand in the work of the current commissioner, Sarah Rochira. I agree entirely with everything that Darren Millar had to say about the work of Ruth Marks and her important contribution to the lives of older people in Wales.]
 
Dros y flwyddyn ddiwethaf, mae’r pwyllgor wedi ymgymryd â nifer o ddarnau o waith sy’n berthnasol i’r comisiynydd. Y mwyaf amlwg, wrth gwrs, oedd yr ymchwiliad i ofal preswyl i bobl hŷn yng Nghymru. Y comisiynydd oedd y tyst cyntaf i roi tystiolaeth i’r ymchwiliad. I ni, roedd hyn yn fan cychwyn amlwg. Rydym yn edrych ymlaen at weithio’n agos gyda hi i sicrhau bod yr argymhellion yn ein hadroddiad yn cael eu derbyn a’u rhoi ar waith cyn gynted â phosibl.

[Over the past year, the committee has undertaken a number of pieces of work that are relevant to the commissioner. The most obvious, of course, has been the inquiry into residential care for older people in Wales. The commissioner was the first witness to give evidence to the inquiry. That was an obvious starting point for us. We look forward to closely collaboration with her to ensure that the recommendations made in our report are accepted and implemented as soon as possible.]
 
Mae adroddiad blynyddol y comisiynydd yn cyfeirio at yr angen i ddiogelu pobl hŷn sy’n agored i niwed ac sydd wedi cael eu cam-drin. Rydym wedi clywed yr hyn a ddywedodd y Dirprwy Weinidog y prynhawn yma, a disgwyliwn y bydd y Bil gwasanaethau cymdeithasol newydd yn cynnwys trefniadau mwy pendant yn ymwneud ag amddiffyn oedolion. Edrychwn ymlaen at ystyried y mesurau hyn pan gaiff y Bil ei gyflwyno.

[The commissioner’s annual report refers to the need to protect vulnerable older people who have been victims of abuse. We have heard the Deputy Minister’s comments this afternoon, and we expect the new social services Bill to include strengthened arrangements around adult protection. We look forward to considering these measures once the Bill is introduced.

Wrth edrych ymlaen, bydd dau fater a gododd yn ystod ein sesiwn gyda’r comisiynydd yn berthnasol i wasanaethau iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol dros y blynyddoedd nesaf. Y cyntaf yw’r cynlluniau i ad-drefnu gwasanaethau iechyd yng Nghymru. Tanlinellodd y comisiynydd ei phenderfyniad i gymryd camau pendant i sicrhau bod gan bobl hŷn lais yn y broses hon ac y bydd y newidiadau sydd ar y gweill yn diwallu eu hanghenion. Yr ail fater yw’r angen parhaus i fynd i’r afael â’r problemau o ran talu am ofal. Mae’r modd rydym yn talu am ofal yn allweddol i’n gallu i ddarparu gwasanaethau o safon i’n pobl hŷn. Rydym yn croesawu ymrwymiad parhaus y comisiynydd i sicrhau y bydd y mater hwn yn parhau i gael sylw a lle blaenllaw yn y ddadl gyhoeddus.

[In looking ahead, two matters that arose during our sessions with the commissioner will be crucial in the delivery of health and social care services over the years ahead. The first is the proposed reconfiguration of health services in Wales. The commissioner emphasises her determination to take an active role in ensuring that the voices of older people are heard as part of this process and that the changes that are under way will meet their needs. The second matter is the continuing need to address the problems of paying for care. The question of how we pay for care is key to our ability to deliver high-quality services deserved by our older people. We welcome the commissioner’s continued commitment in ensuring that this issue is high on the agenda and is at the forefront of the public debate.]
 
  

Yn ystod y ddadl y llynedd, awgrymais mai’r ddolen gyswllt yng ngwaith y comisiynydd yw’r ffaith ei bod yn mynd i’r afael â materion anghyfforddus: y materion hynny a all, fel arall, gael eu hesgeuluso gan y rhai sydd â’r grym yn ein cymdeithas. Gall y rhain gynnwys y prif sefydliadau yn y sector cyhoeddus, sef y byrddau iechyd lleol, cwmnïau corfforaethol rhyngwladol mawr sy’n darparu gofal preswyl, neu’r Gweinidogion yma ac yn Whitehall. Ar sail y dystiolaeth a roddodd i’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol, credaf y gallwn fod yn hyderus fod hon yn her y mae’r comisiynydd newydd yn gwbl benderfynol o’i hwynebu tra bydd yn ei swydd. Edrychwn ymlaen at weithio’n agos gyda hi i fynd i’r afael â’r mater hwn yn ystod y flwyddyn nesaf.

[During last year’s debate, I suggested that the unifying thread in the work of the commissioner is that she takes on the uncomfortable issues: those issues that might otherwise be neglected by those who occupy positions of power in our society. Those can include major public sector organisations, such as local health boards, large multinational corporations that provide residential care, or Ministers here and in Whitehall. On the basis of the evidence that she gave to the Health and Social Care Committee, I think that we can be confident that this is a challenge that the new commissioner is fully determined to meet during her term in office. We look forward to working closely with her on this agenda over the coming year.]
 
Y Dirprwy Lywydd / The Deputy Presiding Officer: Galwaf ar y Dirprwy Weinidog i ymateb i’r ddadl.

[I call on the Deputy Minister to respond to the debate.]
 
Gwenda Thomas: Diolchaf i bob Aelod sydd wedi cymryd rhan yn y ddadl hon. Fe ddechreuaf gyda chyfraniad Aled Roberts, ac rwy’n rwy’n falch ein bod wedi gallu derbyn ei welliannau.
[I thank every Member who has contributed to today’s debate. I will start with the contribution of Aled Roberts, and I am pleased that we have been able to accept his amendments.]

 
Aled Roberts has reiterated the need to work together with the commissioner and I am totally supportive of that. A few Members have mentioned elder abuse. On 18 October 2010, I made quite a clear statement about how I saw the way forward with that. I think that the time has come to legislate for protection and safeguarding. We will do that through the Bill. We need that strength of legislation to move that agenda forward.
 
  

I welcome Darren Millar’s positive remarks about the report and, again, a commitment to work together on the Bill. I endorse the comments that you made about the report. It is right to reflect on the achievements of Ruth Marks and the foundation stones that she laid in building the role of the commissioner. I welcome what you said about independent advocacy. I made it clear in my opening remarks how I see the way forward. It will be a question of resources, but we are absolutely committed to that business plan and we will deliver that, through legislation, with the introduction of the Bill.
 
  

I would like to comment on the declaration of rights before I move on. Although we know that this will not have a base in law, we will push for it with other countries. It will send out a positive message, and a message that we need to send out from here. Therefore, I am glad to support that. I cannot be specific about the timeline at the moment, but I hope to be able to do so soon and to come back on that.
 
  

Jenny Rathbone talked about dementia and care pathways. There is room to look at innovative ways to deliver the service. The Minister for health and I are working on this, thinking about a possible team in terms of a family approach to dementia. I cannot see why that could not work. I would like to tell Members about my visit last Thursday to Clydach Court residential care home, run by Rhondda Cynon Taf Borough County Council, in Trealaw. If you can go there to see it, please do so, because it runs on the butterfly principle. I have not seen anything quite like it in the delivery of dementia services. The staff there have thrown away their uniforms, everybody was on a par with one another, every resident was dealt with as an individual, with respect and dignity, and you got to know a bit about the residents as you walked along the corridors. I know that I have only about seven minutes, but I could take up all that time talking to you about the provision there. It is the kind of exemplary provision that we need to roll out, and I was glad to see it and to launch the Care and Social Services Inspectorate Wales report in that home.
 
  

Lindsay Whittle gave an impassioned welcome to the report. I really liked what you said, and perhaps it was the most important thing to say today, namely that it is about real people. You put that across very well. You also mentioned abuse, but I think that I have covered my response on that. Digital inclusion and respect are absolutely on the top of the agenda.
 
  

Janet Finch-Saunders was complimentary again about Sarah Rochira’s report and mentioned older people’s champions across parties, with one for each of us. Why not? That is a positive way forward. We are all getting older—I am today, actually [Laughter.]—but, nevertheless, it is a privilege to age and to be able to contribute to society. There are excellent examples of that.
 

Nick Ramsay: I am grateful to you for giving way—I feel that I am getting older too. Do you agree that, with an ageing population, each and every one of us should aim to be an older people’s champion, because although legislation is a good thing, with an ageing population, unless we are all vigilant and keep an eye on older people living in our streets and towns, we will not get to where we want to with this?

 
Gwenda Thomas: I absolutely agree with that. We see children and grandchildren being older people’s champions; often, perhaps they are the best champions. However, I endorse and take on board that comment.
 
 
Janet Finch-Saunders made reference to carers. We have legislated for the carers’ strategies, and Wales is leading on this with the involvement of carers in policy development and in individual plans. I have now had seven strategies with which I am happy; there are three more to go. I will update Members on the strategies that have come to hand.
 
  

Mark Drakeford, roeddech yn sôn am y gwasanaeth iechyd a’r gwasanaethau cymdeithasol a’r angen iddynt weithio ar y cyd. Mae hynny’n hollbwysig i’r agenda sydd o’n blaen, fel mae ystyried bod y gwasanaethau hyn ar y brig, fel y dywedoch. Maent yn bwysig i bobl sy’n heneiddio, ond maent yn bwysig i’r bobl sy’n dod ar ein hôl hefyd, oherwydd bydd hwn yn fater teuluol ac unigol i bob un ohonom. Roeddech yn sôn am waith y pwyllgor a’i ymchwiliad i ofal preswyl, sydd yn waith y gallwn i gyd elwa ohono. Byddaf yn ymateb i’r adroddiad hwnnw gan y pwyllgor.

[Mark Drakeford, you talked about health and social services and the need for them to collaborate. That is crucial to the agenda that is ahead of us, as is considering that these services are top-class, as you said. They are important for people who are ageing, but they are important for the people who come after us as well, because this will be a family matter as well as an individual matter for us all. You referred to the work of the committee and its inquiry into residential care, which is work from which we can all benefit. I will respond to that report from the committee.]
  
  
Rydych yn sôn am ddiogelu pobl hŷn. Fel y dywedais, mae angen sêl deddfwriaeth ar yr agenda honno, a byddwn yn gwneud ein gorau i ddiogelu ac amddiffyn pobl hŷn yn well drwy’r Bil. Wrth gwrs, mae’r Bil hefyd er lles pobl hŷn. Ar y mater o dalu am ofal, mae hwn yn fater y mae’n rhaid inni symud ymlaen arno. Rydym wedi cael adroddiad Dilnot, ac rwyf yn aros am gyfarfod gyda Norman Lamb AS. Rydym hefyd yn aros am adroddiad ar waith y pwyllgor arbennig a sefydlwyd yn y Cynulliad, er mwyn i mi gael cyflwyno adroddiad i Aelodau ar y mater hwnnw.

[You mentioned safeguarding older people. As I have said, we need the seal of legislation on this agenda, and we will do our utmost to safeguard and protect older people through the Bill. Of course, this Bill will be for the benefit of older people. On the issue of paying for care, this is a matter that we need to progress. We have the Dilnot report and I am awaiting a meeting with Norman Lamb MP. We are also waiting for the report of the special committee established in the Assembly, so that I can then report back to the Assembly on the matter.]
  

I am very grateful to Members for the support that they have given to the commissioner since she came into post, and for the interesting debate that we have had today. The commissioner’s commitment to engaging with as many older people as possible is clear. Her role as an independent champion of older people’s rights and interests is crucial in our changing society, especially in view of the austerity that we all know that we face. Therefore, I commend the commissioner’s report and thank her and her team for their work. I also thank all Members once again for what I think has been a positive debate.

Mark Drakeford: A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am safonau ansawdd aer mewn ardaloedd canol dinas yng Nghymru.
[Will the Minister make a statement on air quality standards in inner city areas in Wales.]

John Griffiths: Controlling air pollution in Wales is a key objective for the Welsh Government. We are committed to tackling the sources of pollution and ensuring people’s right to clean air. Overall, our air is cleaner than at any time since the industrial revolution and we continue to work towards further improvement.

Mark Drakeford: Will you tell me how, in pursuing that ambition, the Welsh Government factors air quality issues into its assessment of local authority proposals for local development plans, particularly where those plans envisage large-scale housing creation with transport routes required to take people from where they live to where they work?
 
John Griffiths: Local planning authorities have to consider a range of issues when preparing their statutory land use plans. Planning Policy Wales states that when preparing those strategies, and indeed looking at future growth and allocating land accordingly, issues around environmental factors such as air quality should be considered. Air quality is a very important matter for quality of life. It can have health impacts and can affect acceptable future use of land. So, we expect local planning authorities to take such matters into account when working up local development plans. Wider than that, the air quality management plans are very important in terms of air quality issues.

The Leader of the Opposition (Andrew R.T. Davies): In 2009, the then Welsh Government allocated around £14.5 million to Cardiff City Council to create a sustainable towns initiative. That was a two-year programme. We are aware that air quality is affected by congestion and a build-up of traffic. Has the Welsh Government undertaken any surveying work to see how effective that £14.5 million has been in reducing the amount of car journeys into Cardiff and creating alternative modes of transport so that air quality can be improved in Cardiff? If you do have that information, when will you make it public?

John Griffiths: As I mentioned in response to Mark Drakeford, air quality management areas are essential tools for local authorities to address issues around air pollution. As the Member rightly mentions, road traffic emissions are a very important part of that air quality. So, we expect effective monitoring and, when any new major initiative takes place in a local authority area, that monitoring should take place and should identify any unacceptable impacts. I will write to the Member with details of anything that has taken place outside of the usual air quality monitoring.

Dydd Mercher, 9 Ionawr 2013
Wednesday, 9 January 2013

 Mark Drakeford: Mae dadleuon ar yr iaith Gymraeg yn y Cynulliad yn tueddu i ddilyn yr un patrwm. I ddechrau, rydym yn cytuno ar bwysigrwydd yr iaith, ac yna rydym yn symud yn gyflym i ganolbwyntio ar y problemau niferus sy’n ei hwynebu. Rwy’n cytuno bod canlyniadau’r cyfrifiad diweddar yn parhau i lunio darlun o iaith mewn perygl ers canrif a bod angen deialog dwys ac agored, fel yr un a glywsom yma yn y Cynulliad y prynhawn yma, sy’n croesawu pob syniad i gryfhau sefyllfa’r iaith.

Mark Drakeford: Debates on the Welsh language in the Assembly tend to follow a standard pattern. We briefly agree on importance of the language, and swiftly move to lament, at length, the many problems it faces. I agree that the recent census results continue to paint a century-long picture of a language in danger, and that it demands a concentrated and open dialogue, as we have heard this afternoon in the Assembly, in which all ideas for strengthening the position of the language are welcome

  Fodd bynnag, rwyf yn parhau i gredu mai un o’r ffyrdd pwysig y gall hynny ddigwydd yw drwy ddysgu o’n llwyddiant, yn ogystal â’n methiannau. Mewn llawer o ffyrdd, mae’r iaith Gymraeg yn llwyddiant ysgubol. Mae’r ffaith ei bod yn goroesi mewn byd lle mae Saesneg yn dominyddu, a lle mae ieithoedd lleiafrifol yn diflannu drwy’r amser, yn stori ryfeddol ynddi ei hun. Yn sicr, un o’r pethau a fyddai’n syfrdanu fy mam-gu a’m tad-cu, pe baen nhw’n dod yn ôl i Gymru heddiw, yw’r newid mawr ym mhresenoldeb cyhoeddus yr iaith. Wrth reswm, rydym yn bryderus am y lleihad yn nifer y siaradwyr Cymraeg yn yr ardaloedd hynny lle mae’r Gymraeg wedi bod ar ei chryfaf. Er hynny, pan roeddwn yn tyfu lan yn sir Gâr—un o’r ardaloedd Cymraeg ei hiaith—hanner canrif yn ôl, nid oedd presenoldeb cyhoeddus i’r iaith Gymraeg o gwbl mewn archfarchnadoedd a mannau cyhoeddus ac fel rhan normal o fywyd bob dydd.

  However, I also continue to believe that one of the important ways in which that can happen is to learn from our success as well as our failures. In so many ways, the Welsh language is an outstanding success. Its very survival, in a world dominated by English, and where minority languages are disappearing all the time, is a remarkable story in itself. Certainly, one of the sights that would astonish my grandparents, were they to revisit Wales today, would be the transformation in the public presence of the language. Naturally, we are concerned at the erosion of the number of Welsh speakers in those areas where the Welsh language has been strongest. However, when I was growing up in Carmarthenshire—one of the Welsh-speaking areas—half a century ago, the Welsh language did not have a public presence at all in supermarkets and public places, or as a normal part of everyday life.

  Llwyddiant mawr arall yw’r twf mewn addysg cyfrwng Cymraeg. Yn fy etholaeth i, yma yn y brifddinas, mae nifer y plant sy’n cael addysg drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg yn parhau i godi ym mhob cymuned, o’r wardiau mwyaf amlddiwylliannol yng Nghymru, yng Nglan yr Afon a Threganna, drwy ystadau Trelái a Chaerau ar gyrion y ddinas lle mae’r ysgol gynradd Gymraeg diweddaraf, Ysgol Nant Caerau, yn orlawn yn barod, i bentrefi mwy gwledig Gwaelod y Garth a Phentyrch. Ym mha bynnag amgylchiadau cymdeithasol ac economaidd y mae addysg cyfrwng Cymraeg yn cael ei darparu, mae’r galw’n codi i fanteisio arni. Ar ei ben ei hun, nid yw hyn ddigon, ond mae llwyddiant addysg cyfrwng Cymraeg yn ein galluogi i feddwl heddiw am ffyrdd newydd i ddatblygu’r gallu i siarad Cymraeg, a ddysgwyd yn yr ysgol, mewn agweddau eraill ar fywydau pobl ifanc.

  Another great success is the growth in Welsh medium education. In my own constituency, here in our capital city, the number of children who receive Welsh-medium education continues to rise in every community, from the most multicultural wards in Wales, in Riverside and Canton, through the outlying estates of Ely and Caerau, where the latest Welsh-medium primary school, Ysgol Nant Caerau, already has more pupils than it can accommodate, to the more rural villages of Gwaelod y Garth and Pentyrch. In whatever set of social and economic circumstances Welsh-medium education is provided, the demand rises strongly to take advantage of it. By itself, it is not enough, but the success story of Welsh-medium education allows us to think, today, about new ways in which we can build on the ability to speak Welsh, acquired in school, in other aspects of young people’s lives.

  Yn olaf, drwy ddarparu gwasanaethau, rydym yn awr yn meddwl am wasanaethau yn yr iaith Gymraeg fel rhan arferol o’r hyn sydd angen ei ddarparu. Yn ymchwiliad diweddar y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol i wasanaethau gofal preswyl i bobl hŷn, er enghraifft, roedd hyn yn elfen gyson yn ein trafodaethau â thystion a’r rhai sy’n darparu gwasanaethau yn y maes. Nid wyf yn dadlau,  wrth gwrs, bod popeth ar gael ym mhob man yn y ffordd y byddem yn dymuno iddo fod. Yn ôl yn yr 1980au, roeddwn i yn rhan o’r grŵp, o dan arweiniad Hywel Williams—sydd yn awr yn Aelod Seneddol dros Gaernarfon—a oedd yn hybu argaeledd gwasanaethau drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg yn ein gwasanaethau cymdeithasol. Ar y pryd, y cwestiwn yr oedd pobl yn ei godi gyda ni oedd nid a oedd gwasanaethau o’r fath ar gael ond pam y dylent fod ar gael o gwbl.

  Finally, in service delivery, we now think of services available in the Welsh language as a routine part of what has to be provided. In the recent inquiry by the Health and Social Care Committee into residential care services for older people, for example, this formed a regular strand in our discussions with witnesses and with those who provide services in the field. I am not arguing, of course, that everything is available everywhere, in the way that we would want it to be. Back in the 1980s, I was part of a group, led by Hywel Williams—now the MP for Caernarfon—that promoted the availability of services through the Welsh language in our social services. At that time, the question that people raised with us was not whether such services were available, but why they should be made available at all.

  Mae byd gwahanol iawn i’w weld yn y fframwaith strategol ar gyfer gwasanaethau Cymraeg mewn iechyd, gwasanaethau cymdeithasol a gofal cymdeithasol, a lansiwyd ym mis Chwefror y llynedd gan y Gweinidog, Lesley Griffiths. Mae’r fframwaith yn rhoi cyfrifoldeb clir ar  y rhai sy’n darparu gwasanaethau i ymateb i anghenion neu ddymuniad pobl o ran cael gofal drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg.

  What a different world is to be found in the strategic framework for Welsh-language services in health, social services and social care, launched in February last year by the Minister, Lesley Griffiths. The framework places a clear responsibility on those who provide services to respond to people’s needs or wishes to be cared for through the medium of Welsh. ]]> http://markdrakeford.com/contribution-to-the-debate-on-the-welsh-language/feed/ 0 http://markdrakeford.com/question-to-business-minister-on-south-east-wales-city-region/ http://markdrakeford.com/question-to-business-minister-on-south-east-wales-city-region/#comments Fri, 11 Jan 2013 16:47:03 +0000 editor http://markdrakeford.com/?p=1121  

Dydd Mercher, 9 Ionawr 2013
Wednesday, 9 January 2013

Mark Drakeford: A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am y camau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cymryd i ddatblygu dull gweithredu Dinas-ranbarth yn ne ddwyrain Cymru.

[Will the Minister make a statement on what actions the Welsh Government is taking to develop a City Region approach in south east Wales.]
 

Edwina Hart: We have taken a number of steps to develop the city region approach in south-east Wales. I have established a task and finish group to encourage an integrated approach and to promote joint working. The group will be co-chaired by a local authority lead and a private sector stakeholder.

 
Mark Drakeford: I welcome all of those developments, including the new appointments that you have made. Do you agree that in the wider European context, Cardiff matches or surpasses the size of some other cities that form the hub of successful city regions, but that their success depends crucially on effective working relationships between those cities and their hinterland?

 
Edwina Hart: I totally concur, because one of the key areas that we will have to look at is the areas outside of the city region and how the city region concept impacts on those. It is important that the city regions do not just benefit Cardiff, Swansea or whatever might emerge in north Wales, but also their hinterland and the areas outside. This is why the debate surrounding city regions has been very difficult. We have had the report from Dr Elizabeth Haywood, and she has now finished her work except for the work that she is undertaking in north Wales. The work is being taken forward by David Rosser, who heads up the city regions project with a group of officials, because we have to be careful to ensure that we are on the task about looking at the city region and how it develops. It has been a 20-year task in some areas of Europe and the UK to get that type of co-ordination, and we must not run before we can walk. We must concentrate on the key area of co-operation, and that is why Alun Davies, as the Deputy Minister for Agriculture, Food, Fisheries and European Programmes, will be heavily involved in the first year to concentrate hearts and minds on the importance of structural funds and their impact on city regions.

 
William Graham: I warmly welcome what the Minister has said, particularly now that the name of the city region has been changed to ‘south Wales’ rather than simply ‘Cardiff’. It has every chance of being a great success, but I am a little concerned, and I would be grateful for the Minister’s confirmation, that there will be no conflict with the enterprise zone.

 
Edwina Hart: I do not think that there will be any conflict with the enterprise zone. I have been very pleased by the way in which the enterprise zones have understood the role and function of other organisations, and I have also been very pleased by the way in which local authorities have taken the enterprise zones to heart in working collaboratively with them. The reason why I have chosen a task and finish group mechanism for city regions is because I want to ensure that there is no conflict, and the fact that I have appointed independent chairs and that the Deputy Minister will be attending those meetings will ensure that people will be on the task, rather than looking for areas of conflict and matters that divide them. Instead, they will have to look for matters that join them for economic wellbeing.

 
Lindsay Whittle: Minister, it is good to hear you and Mark Drakeford mention the hinterland. Cardiff’s bid to be the European Capital of Culture in 2008 failed because of the failure of council leaders, although not all of them, to back that bid. My concern about the task and finish group that you have established is that it is possibly too small. Will you commit to ensuring that every area is represented as we move forward with the city regions, especially to ensure that Cardiff as the core city, Newport as the main second city and the Heads of the Valleys are represented properly, too, but, in particular, represented at local government level? These are big players.

 
Edwina Hart: I have asked the initial groups that I have established to look at this at the core to make some proposals to me by the end of January about how they think that it will work. I will then look specifically at their terms of reference, take advice from the Deputy Minister, who will lead on behalf of the Government on this, and then I will take that into account. There is a lot of preparatory work to be undertaken in the first instance. Some successful city regions have divided up bits of what the city region issues are for different local authorities to run. I want some of these groups to start to see what might have happened in Manchester or elsewhere and how it has always there before they put things in place definitively. However, I will bear that point in mind.

Mark Drakeford: Minister, the programme monitoring committee that oversees the current round of European funding has been strongly supportive of your determination to ensure that we are able to begin the next round of funding in January next year. However, Members were sufficiently concerned at our meeting in December to ask me to write to you on two matters that lie beyond the control of the Welsh Government. You have dealt this afternoon with issues to do with the budget, and, in your answer to Rhodri Glyn Thomas, you referred to the UK partnership agreement. Can you confirm that the Welsh programmes cannot be formally approved by the European Commission until that UK partnership agreement is reached? Are you concerned that the timetable for concluding that agreement appears to be slipping, and what steps are you able to take to impress on the UK Government the necessity to deploy the necessary pace and pressure to ensure that Welsh programmes are not delayed by the time taken at UK level, which would stand in the way of our implementing programmes in January next year?

 
Alun Davies: I hope that that will not be the case. I have received your letter and I will be responding formally to you and the PMC. I am grateful to the PMC for the work it did and does. The debate that it had in December was certainly useful to us in developing our position. On the budget, we have communicated clearly our concerns to the United Kingdom Government about its current negotiating position. We have also communicated very clearly to the United Kingdom Government that it is possible for it to achieve its negotiating objectives while, at the same time, not damaging the financing and funds that are available to Wales. I have spoken at length to UK Government departments about that and I have communicated to the Foreign Office and, for that matter, to the Foreign Secretary that it is possible for the UK Government to pursue its own negotiating position while, at the same time, protecting the interests of Wales. We will continue to do that and to work closely with the United Kingdom Government to ensure that, as these negotiations are pursued over the coming weeks and months, the Welsh position is acknowledged and protected.

 
In terms of the wider issues about the development of the programmes, in response to Byron Davies’s comments earlier I referred to the discussion that we had within Government about the timing of this consultation. We are anxious to both ensure that there is a wide and informed public debate on these matters while, at the same time, ensuring that we have sufficient time following that public debate to deliver and develop the programmes as a consequence. Our programmes will form part of the overall UK programme itself. As I indicated to Rhodri Glyn Thomas, my expectation is that Wales and the other devolved administrations will have their own chapters in that partnership document and that we will have the opportunity in that chapter to outline how we see the programmes developing in Wales. We are working hard to deliver and develop those programmes according to the timetables that we have available to us. I can only hope and trust that the United Kingdom Government is doing so for England and that it will be able to meet the deadlines that we have set ourselves. The relationship with the UK Government on these matters is very good and very positive, and we are working very closely together to ensure that we are both able to meet our objectives of having programmes up and running in January 2014.